Bad News for Modern Warfare 2 PC Edition

[Schlup]

Well folks, fourzerotwo who is the community manager for Infinity Ward today confirmed a big bomb for the PC edition.  There will be no dedicated servers for MW2 when the game launches.  They will instead use what they are calling IW.net which is backend matchmaking.  They are basically turning it into the same thing that Xbox 360 and PS3 are using.  Which means, no modding, no competition play, no custom rules for games.  It is a sad day for PC gaming.  Basically the way it will work is somebody will decide they want to play a game, they will either click play now or they will click the button to host a game.  This means that if you host the game it will be hosted by your computer and your internet connection but you really won't have much if any control over that game.  I'm pretty ticked off by this decision right now so I am going to keep this short.  There is still a chance that something might change since the game isn't out yet and they could possibly change things with a patch after the game is released but as of right now this is a pretty bad blow to the PC community.  I'm going to take some deep breaths and let it soak in for a while and I will post more on this later.

Here is the source: http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=746&Itemid=69
It's about an hour and 10 minutes long though...

Here are some additional bullet points with more info from that cast.

- No dedicated servers!!! PC system will also use matchmaking (like on consoles)
- No server browser list to join into the server that you want to or enjoy playing on.
- Downloadable Content: 402 couldn't say anything about DLC, because they don't discuss PC DLC at IW.
- Also couldn't/wouldn't say whether the downloadable content ie Map Packs would be free or not...
- 402 told them matchmaking would help the PC community as a whole... (bs of course)
- No modtools, no special mods, no custom maps, no mods to create competitive servers or leagues.
- IW.net will become very important, for consoles and PC.
- 402:"Don't freak out till you see the outcome." "and let us know if it sucks" - other guy:"oh we will surely let you know!"
- Minimum specs. will be reveiled around release date.
- Public games hosted by IW!
- Private matches run by IW. So not run by normal gamers.
- Other guy: "if community found a way to use dedicated servers, what would be your opinion?" - 402:"I wouldn't consider it piracy as long as the game was purchased. I don't know if IW has the same opinion as that though."
- You can tweak the server play style a little (hardcore vs regular mode), but won't be able to create a whole customized server.
- So no customizations for competitive gaming!
- As a result of all this, also no CoDTV
- After 402 left: "its obvious we're gonna need to pay for DLC..."
- Fileplanet demo is not true. (someone said after 402 left.)
- There will be a Steam version and the game will use VAC as anti-cheat instead of punkbuster.

Sincerely,
Schlup

[BlitZo]

I am really upset over this.  I have been following the COD series since the beginning.  I was really pumped for the MW2 release.  Now I am not even interested.  PC gamers have been officially shafted here.  I am canceling my preorder and urge every other PC gamer not to buy this.  I will not even think about purchasing the game unless there are dedicated servers.  Long live PC gaming.

[Schlup]

I hear you Blitzo, I am also inclined to cancel my Pre-order but I'm gonna let it ride for a bit to find out if this all pans out or not.

[BlitZo]

There is a online petition over at the IW forums to include dedicated server. I am not sure if signing this will do any good but it is a good way to let them know they made a big mistake.  I will be voicing my opinion directly to IW and Activision.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw

[Schlup]

There is a online petition over at the IW forums to include dedicated server. I am not sure if signing this will do any good but it is a good way to let them know they made a big mistake.  I will be voicing my opinion directly to IW and Activision.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw

Everybody sign this petition, it's already over 1000 signed.  It needs to be well over 100,000...

[64m3]

this is horrible

[Schlup]

I think the worst part about this is that we won't have any control over the rules we enjoy playing by.  Such as: no cheating (hacking), no cussing, no drama, no disrespect, no noob tubes, etc.  We'll have no control to boot people (kick, ban) for breaking rules, people can come on and do whatever they want and we'll have no recourse.  The other problem is going to be ping, lag, shot registration, etc.  When you do peer to peer alot of times you'll connect to somebody with a crappy computer and dial up internet (or slow DSL/Cable) and thus have a bad experience with online multiplayer.  At this point if you want to buy the game for Single player or Spec Ops (which is co-op for 2 players) then I say buy it, if you are buying it for multiplayer they I would say go into a holding pattern.  I haven't yet decided if I am going to still buy this game or not, we'll have to see how IW and Activision respond to the uproar that has really blown up today and will continue.  I'm just really disappointed, I was all excited about this game, I mean really stoked about it...then IW goes and drops this news, it's really a kick in the junk to PC gamers everywhere!  Forums are blowing up everywhere about this, I fully encourage EVERYBODY to let their feelings known on this topic here and everywhere else you may go.  Please do it in a respectable manor and do not start cussing or flaming though.

[Schlup]

Yeah everybody, this is a bad deal for PC gaming no matter how you look at it. I would encourage everybody to cancel their pre-orders for the game until they change their minds and make dedicated server files and create a backend for it. Most of the important parts have been introduced already. We just need to put our money where our mouths are because apparently that is the only thing that IW/Activision understands. Signing the petition that has been posted is very important and all but if they get a stupid amount of cancelled pre-orders then they are losing a ton of money and their shareholders will start getting upset and then they will make some changes. Money is what makes the world go around you know!  My pre-order has been cancelled until they implement dedicated servers back into the game.

[BlitZo]

My pre-order has been cancelled until they implement dedicated servers back into the game.

Good Job!  I urge everyone else to do the same as well.

[HashBrowny]

this petition is growing outrageously fast. after i signed it, i checked back on it 10 minutes later. the #'s had gown 150-200 in that time. So Far it is now in the 2500's and rising quick. hopefully this works and allows dedicated servers.
I too am going to cancel my Pre-Order until they allow dedicated servers.
If they wanna kick us where it hurts, then lets kick them back.

[Schlup]

Agreed, I am hereby fully recommending to the community that they cancel their pre-orders for this game as soon as possible.

[tehfunk101]

i knew this game was too good to be true -_-  i still dotn understand the reasoning behind all this....

looks like ill be getting some left 4 dead 2 playtime in afterall!

[soldiersam]

I've pre-ordered MW2, but I'm not considering cancelling. I know no dedi servers really sucks, and all of the other features they've taken out was a bad decision, but with all the petitions etc. going around I think IW will change their mind. They know that their fans don't like the decision, so why would they just turn their backs on them without good reason?? I'm just saying wait a little longer and see how it all pans out-that's what I'm doing

[Dark Insomniac]

10409 Signatures Total and climbing. But I will not drop the pre-order I still will like to play it. and with the way this petition is going I do believe they will change their minds at the final week otherwise their losing that many units and with todays economy they don't want that to happen. So I still agree this is a total rip-off. Why can't they see that the dedicated servers weren't an issue. Why change it now.

[BlitZo]

10409 Signatures Total and climbing. But I will not drop the pre-order I still will like to play it. and with the way this petition is going I do believe they will change their minds at the final week otherwise their losing that many units and with todays economy they don't want that to happen. So I still agree this is a total rip-off. Why can't they see that the dedicated servers weren't an issue. Why change it now.

I've pre-ordered MW2, but I'm not considering cancelling. I know no dedi servers really sucks, and all of the other features they've taken out was a bad decision, but with all the petitions etc. going around I think IW will change their mind. They know that their fans don't like the decision, so why would they just turn their backs on them without good reason?? I'm just saying wait a little longer and see how it all pans out-that's what I'm doing

I urge you to rethink this.  I highly doubt this is going to change.  IW has started to silence the threads related to the petition I linked here.  If you think about it  PC players are the minority here, the devs are going to cater to the console players which makes sense because they bring the devs more money.   A petition isn't going to get the devs to change their mind, it is more of a way to voice our opinions and give us some sense of hope.  PC players need to also speak with their wallet and not purchase this.  There are entire clans and gaming communities canceling their preorders.    I am not getting my hopes up about this game and I am really just not interested anymore.  PC players have been shafted and left in the dark too many times with this release. 

[Dark Insomniac]

I urge you to rethink this.  I highly doubt this is going to change.  IW has started to silence the threads related to the petition I linked here.  If you think about it  PC players are the minority here, the devs are going to cater to the console players which makes sense because they bring the devs more money.   A petition isn't going to get the devs to change their mind, it is more of a way to voice our opinions and give us some sense of hope.  PC players need to also speak with their wallet and not purchase this.  There are entire clans and gaming communities canceling their preorders.    I am not getting my hopes up about this game and I am really just not interested anymore.  PC players have been shafted and left in the dark too many times with this release. 

I am sorry but even if we cancel the pre-orders that we have already made. It wouldn't make a difference. Just because the hardcore PC gamers have heard and read this doesn't mean that the average gamer has. So even if you say oh lets all cancel are pre-orders to make them change their minds, it wont work. Petitions help the cause some what. When the game comes out and the people play it online, their feedback will make them determine their next step. I am still thinking that they might rethink this. There is still 22 days before it is released minus the whole 5-8 days to ship it. They are not done with the process of the game. I notice that alot of games change within the last month or so. I am not going to stop a pre-order for a game that I want to play one for the main storyline. The multiplayer part for me is not the thing that really pulled me into wanting the game. Yes multiplayer is fun to play with people other then the Computer. But the story is what I want to play for the most part. So blitzo you can cancel your pre-order and so can others but this is what I want and no matter how hard you argue with me or soldiersam it wont change my mind on not getting at midnight on 11.10.09. If you still think I am wrong for doing so you have all your rights to think that way but this is my last post on this subject for I have stated my opinion and you have stated yours. Thank you for trying to understand.

[CoCoCountyKiller]

I will be canceling my pre-order and what is the deal with charging for map packs?
wow
went from totally stoked to pfft turning my back on them!!!!

[CoCoCountyKiller]

15437 sig's

[BlitZo]

If you still think I am wrong for doing so you have all your rights to think that way but this is my last post on this subject for I have stated my opinion and you have stated yours. Thank you for trying to understand.

Never thought you were wrong at all its your game.  There will be alot of people that share your same opinion and there is nothing wrong with that at all.  For those of us PC players that have been waiting for this release we have been stabbed in the back.  Just trying to gather support to make the game right.

[Destro]

There is still 22 days before it is released minus the whole 5-8 days to ship it. They are not done with the process of the game.

I doubt there will be any change before the release date unless they put the release off.  I work in an engineering shop and can tell you that for them to make this sort of a change is going to take more time than what they have.  It needs to be developed, QA'ed, documented, support needs to be trained, etc...all before it even makes it onto the DVD that then needs duplicated, packaged and mailed.

They already have their timeline and project planned out.  The developers that worked on this game are probably scheduled to move onto a new project, or even have moved on already.  I'd say that if they make any change it is going to come via a patch post-go-live.

[Old_Colonel]

I too am very disappointed at this development, but I think it's important to keep the gaming community arguments objective; i.e. signing the petition, which now exceeds 16,000.  An emotive argument never wins in the business world!  Take some time to suck back, reload and think about a sound and hopefully unified approach to this problem, if that's possible.   

[Deagroth]

Yeah,  read  this...signed the petition...I'm not going to cancel the pre-order though.  My reason behind it is even if they don't allow dedicated servers, I'll still be playing the solo and co-op campaign.  Petition was just over 18,500 sigs when I signed it.

[Monkey_Grill]

Just cancel your pre-order, and wait till a price drop.

[Schlup]

Ok, here's the deal, Infinity Ward/Activision understand money, and that's about it.  If we want them to reconsider their decision to eliminate dedicated servers then we need to hit them in their pocketbooks.  The way I see it if 17,000 people cancel their pre-orders of the game that is a million dollars in potentially lost revenue.  I would say that is enough to at least get them rethinking their decisions, I know the shareholders will see it that way at least.  

I realize you guys are partly buying this game for single player campaign and Spec ops co-op but what happens after the first week when you have played that out and are bored of it, you're moving to multiplayer.  But when you do that you are welcomed with laggy servers all the time, horribly bad shot registration, very small servers, like 8-10 will be absolute maximums for somebody that has a smoking fast internet connection like Verizon FiOS.  Regular people won't be able to host any more than 3-6 players on at once.  

I for one think all of this will completely ruin the multiplayer experience.  Coupled with the fact that this IW.net will be brand new and anything like this, especially something that hasn't been beta tested or anything yet will fail with bugs and not working correctly especially under the massive loads that it will experience.  This will all add up to completely crippling the multiplayer portion of the game.  So after the first week the game is pretty much junk.  I personally wouldn't spend $60 for a game that I will only play a week at maximum.  

I want everybody to understand that the petition is good and all but it won't force them to change their mind.  WE HAVE TO HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS BY CANCELLING OUR PRE-ORDERS.  I wanted this game more than anybody did but this game has officially turned to crap and I won't be buying it.  Multiplayer is the reason people buy this game in the long run.

[Monkey_Grill]

I agree with you Schlup. If we are just going to get the game for single-player, it should be $15, not $60. I will cancel my pre-order tomorrow after school.

[Destro]

Have you considered changing your sig, Schlup?

[deryk]

This is bad news, however there are or have been many sites acting like god and ejecting players without providing a reason such as KELLYS HEROES.
I am a professional person and have never given anyone a reason to eject me from a game and when asked why, I was shunned and banned. when a person is prevented from playing on a server they should at least be given a warning and or a reason. Perhaps this non-modification will prevent such occurances.

I am still in the dark.

[Dark Insomniac]

Ok so I can't just stop commenting on this thread. I understand everyones thought. I have been waiting for this since it was announced, even when I didn't have CoD4. I agree with some of the things they are doing. I like how it coinsides with steam and vac, I will not make any comments on it since we have yet to actually seen this iwnet. However I can see them after the first week or first month to change to dedicated servers. I dont think that stoping the pre-orders will stop them. The main reason I say that is because even if you don't pre-order it you will still get it. You can say that oh I am not going to buy it, but how long will you really hold out once the gamers give their ratings on it. So that is another reason I will not cancel my pre-order. Also for a temporary server before they get eventually to a dedicated server patch you can create a private server where you set up the rules and can kick and ban people. I am sorry to say tho that it is to early to turn your backs on it right now. Infinity Ward and Activision have most likely seen this happening. If you think that they still are going in a wrong direction for this and have not thought of it, just ask out loud to your self why would they do this if they havent for seen the outcome.

[BlitZo]

Didn't you guys buy a server with intentions of running MW2?   Better put it to better use, any ideas?

[Schlup]

Still waiting to hear what comes out of this but I'm thinking Battlefield Bad Company 2, L4D2, CoD4 back, etc.

[JSCCajun]

This really sucks.  Many in our clan were looking forward to this.  Looks like we will be playing something else.

Our clan is a group of friends, and we play to together, for the fun and enjoyment of each others company.  We get our own server, so that we can play and not worry
about having to deal with other server owners, who are jerks.

I saw somewhere else a posting about this same thing happened with Medal of Honor Airborne, and how it was basically the same thing, everyone was pumped to get the game
and then once we got it we were stuck playing on random servers that were provided.  It failed miserably, and only after a year, they finally released dedicated servers, but by that time it was too late, the PC gaming community had moved on to other games.  

So I guess if they can't learn from their mistakes of the past, then they will continue to flop.

This is also to me another affront to the pc gaming community.  In our case we are a community and we play where our friends are, the thing about a dedicated server is you can keep the asshats out.  You also are able to control the hackers with Punkbuster, which won't be in this game either.  

Other comments I have seen are that they will have hackers getting into this game, and that will ruin game play for many.  I see it as a losing move.

Sorry I will not be buying this game.  I don't play games for the single player part.  I do this to play with my friends.


24866 signatures as of 3:14 EST

[CoCoCountyKiller]

28000 sigs and climbing

I will be on my way back to best buy to return my pre-Order

co.co.

[Schlup]

Thank you CoCo for banding together with your gaming brothers on the PC front by returing your preorder.

By the way it's 31,000 sigs now.

[JSCCajun]

If the game is $59.00 a pop, and there are 31349 people on the petition, and that many were going to get the game and now not..
that would be $1,849,591.00  That seems large, but it is a small amount if you think about it compared to total sales they are contemplating.

Needs to be higher.

not that all are not going to get it..  just a maybe.

[Schlup]

Well the petition is great and all but the real thing they will be watching is cancelled preorders!

[CoCoCountyKiller]

are we becoming that extinct ....
where PC gamers no longer matter?

times are changing and we must unite and fight together

they have released the xbox/ps3 dogs ....they to shall find death!!!

Co.Co.

[Schlup]

Long live PC Gamers!

[BlitZo]

If we're going down....We're going down fighting

[BlindSnyper]

Signed the petition... I'm very angry to get back from my drill weekend, and this be the first thing I'm faced with... 

Petition is at 35400 now!!!
I'm # 35225

I added my rank and the fact that I'm in the corps just to add some fuel to the fire... (as if anyone will even notice)

[Schlup]

Thank you Snyper!  Did you have it preordered?  Cancelled?

[Grimorly]

Heres how i feel about this...

Cat betrayed his Girlfriend !!	Small | Large

[Dark Insomniac]

Ok I just wanna say one thing. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU CANCEL YOUR PRE-ORDER IT JUST MEANS YOU WONT GET IT ON THE RELEASE DATE. It is not like that you will not get the game. So I don't think IW cares much of a person or people canceling their pre-orders. Also I am a PC gammer and I listen and understand what they were talking about on bash123: pwnt! I am a PC gamer I have a PS2 but no online I do not play my PS2 as much as my PC. But I think everyone that is canceling their pre-orders because they simply hear oh no dedicated servers are going a little overbored. IW has already thought this through. They will eventually put dedicated servers back. Not right away because they want to test the new system out and see what people think of it. I am doing just that. I will play the multiplayer when it comes out. I will send them my feedback and hopefully other PC Gamers that get the game will also. This would be quicker then saying oh I will cancel a pre-order and delay me buying the game. Just because it failed in other games doesn't mean this will fail in this one. It is a new idea try it out. Just like if someone gives you a new drink (energy drink, coffee, soda, beer, etc.) you would try some if you don't like it you would say so. So why not try it out give feedback instead of saying that this is going to kill off multiplayer in general. IT IS ONE GAME LIKE THEY REALY WOULD CARE IF ONE GAME GOES BAD. Yes it is wrong for them to do it on this game. But it is more wrong for people to comment on it when they have yet to even try it.

[JSCCajun]

I registered at the Activision Website for the forums, and I logged in and wasn't there 5 minutes, and they banned me.
Not sure why, the excuse they used was for Spamming.  I have never spammed in my life. 
Who knows...

B@st@rds

[Grimorly]

Signed at 41082....

fight the powers that be...

well atleast i dont have to cancel pre-order was gonna get it this week but i think ill wait now

[BlitZo]

Yeah they banned me yesterday...lol   I am sure everyone who is canceling their preorder is not going to purchase the game at a later date.  I for one and several gaming communities will not purchase this game until there is dedicated server support.

[AngryYankee]

#41526

[Schlup]

In reply to Dark Insomniac's last post:
I think you yourself need to get a grasp on what is going on here since your entire post is erroneous.  There will be NO DEDICATED SERVERS in Modern Warfare 2, they will simply have clients connecting to each other. With the one who started it being the host, they will then utilize the power of that person's home computer and home internet connection as a listen server. My guess is that there are very few computers with hardware capable of pulling off a decent experience, even fewer with an internet connection that will be able to host without lag, high pings, and horrible shot registration, much less be able to host more than 6 people at a time, I mean as a PC gamer, how much fun is it to play 3 on 3? When we are used to 24+ man servers. There's no way we'll be able to play like we are used to, I'd say in the best possible scenario of the IW.net world we'll be looking at a 12 man server...and I say that with doubt because I doubt many if any home users have a 5 or 6Mbit upload connection to the internet.

And don't even get me started on how IW.net could be anything but buggy and troublesome since it's NEVER been tested before, there have been no beta's, there have been no demo's, it's pretty well fresh out of the box and I'm willing to put money down that when this system goes live with the amount of load it's going to receive it's gonna fail in several different ways.

Dark, I learned recently that if you just assume that something is so crazy it will never happen so you don't really worry about it and don't get involved...then it ends up really happening and nothing can change it.  Why don't you go research now other games have fared that have tried this listen server idea.  They all failed miserably and were horrible games because of it.  Don't get me wrong, MW2 has great potential to be a supurb game but they need to allow it to be supurb and not dumb it down to a console version, there's a BIG difference between consoles and PC's, Xbox 360's are all created equal, PS3's are all created equal as well, NO PC's ARE CREATED EQUAL, that's why it won't work, they aren't standardized.

What we are doing here is banding together as the PC gaming community of the world, this community has made a couple decisions, and they weren't my decisions, though I do agree 100% with them.  The first is that we would start petitions and get out the word for everybody to sign them, the second is that we would tell everybody we knew about this raw deal and encourage them to tell everybody they know to get the word out quickly, the third is that we would all cancel our preorders of the game.  This tells IW/Activision that we aren't going to take this and it makes it loud and clear by hitting their pocketbooks.  Now you can do whatever you want but you should know that you are one of the very few that feel the way you do and disagree with the PC gaming communities decisions.  The only people that I have even heard or seen that feel the same way you do are console fanboys that don't even play PC games.  Honestly I'm a little confused, if you want to play a game like you are playing on a console then why don't you just go play your console and quit playing PC games, cause that's not how we roll here.  PC Gaming was built on dedicated servers and everything else that goes along with them and we will continue to be that way.

Now I'm not saying that we are going to win this showdown, I don't know what will happen but we are sure going to give it everything we got and if that means not buying the game (which the MP mode is crap at the moment) then that's what it means.  You have to know that our community here at BPN can not and will not get behind a game that we can't run as a community.  If Infinity Ward decides to make no changes then we will pick some other game, a game that we can play together as a community to get behind and support.  There are alot of good games coming up on the horizon and if Infinity Ward doesn't want our business then they won't get it.

Frankly Dark, your attitude of your "Oh, my opinion doesn't matter" and "they don't care what I think, and I can't change anything" is a bit disheartening.  You need to man up and fight for your rights and opinions, that is why America is free in the first place, our fathers fought for that right, the right for each and every one of us to have a voice and to be able to use it.  This isn't just any game either, it isn't some small game that will come and go, this is MW2, this will probably be game of the year no matter if they don't sell a single copy of the PC version or not.  This is a big blockbuster game and this is one that a whole lot of people want to play.  That is why people are fighting so hard for it to be the game we know it can be and not some crappy console port that they spent no time on.  WE DEMAND DEDICATED SERVERS!

[Destro]

Are you sure that they aren't going to host the games in some way themselves?  Perhaps they match everyone and fire off a game on a server they host?  Though, I can't imagine they would want to deal with the hardware to support that.

I guess the only solution now is for everyone to buy Dawn of War 2.

[Schlup]

Are you sure that they aren't going to host the games in some way themselves?  Perhaps they match everyone and fire off a game on a server they host?  Though, I can't imagine they would want to deal with the hardware to support that.

I guess the only solution now is for everyone to buy Dawn of War 2.

Nope they aren't doing that, they've already said they are going to be using IW.net for matchmaking purposes and that the games will be run from listen servers which is just clients connecting to each other.

[BlitZo]

  Honestly I'm a little confused, if you want to play a game like you are playing on a console then why don't you just go play your console and quit playing PC games, cause that's not how we roll here.

Entire post was well said.  Made me feel a little better.