Debate

[Schlup]

Well ok, now the prices have been adjusted the 965 is down to $180 and it's 3.4GHz per core for total power of 13.6GHz.  The i7 920 is 2.67GHz per core with total power of 10.68GHz for $200, so my bad...the AMD Phenom II X4 965 is only 3GHz faster in total power.

[Destro]

GHz vs GHz isn't an apples to apples comparison, especially between Intel and AMD.  If it were a purely GHz to GHz comparison, that would make the Phenom 965 better than the W5590 3.33 quad which is built on the Nehalem architecture.  Yet, the W5590 clearly smokes the Phenom.

Look at the benchmarks.  I didn't look at every one, but the ones I looked at had the 920 coming in significantly better than the 965.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/benchmarks,60.html

So far as I can tell, the main advantage the 965 has had over the 920 was price, but that's because the 920 was always $100 more expensive.  Right now we're seeing an only $20 difference, which is negligible.

Not to say the 965 is bad, but I'd be all over the 920 at that price, especially considering it's LGA 1366.  The numbers don't lie, but to be honest I'm partial.  I will never buy anything but Intel just as Schlup will never buy anything but AMD (no matter how wrong he is ).

[Schlup]

I'd buy Intel if they got more competitive.  And you're right, the 920 will out perform the 965 on certain tasks.  But Sir is not going to be doing those tasks such as ripping videos and encoding/decoding stuff.  He'll be using it for gaming and in gaming the clock speed is king.

[tehfunk101]

I'd buy Intel if they got more competitive.  And you're right, the 920 will out perform the 965 on certain tasks.  But Sir is not going to be doing those tasks such as ripping videos and encoding/decoding stuff.  He'll be using it for gaming and in gaming the clock speed is king.

Gonna disagree with you on that one too, the i7 920 does in fact perform better than the 965 in games.  Its faster, but the triple channel ram and the lga1366 make it more expensive, so it all works out.
oh, and....

Debate

[Destro]

Intel and AMD clock speed aren't directly comparable like that.  It's not possible to just add up the GHz and say X has a higher GHz number, so that makes it better at something.  You can't even always compare Intel GHz to Intel GHz or AMD to AMD.  The only time you can directly compare clock speed is when the chips use the same architecture, which Intel and AMD don't.  You also at least have to factor how much you are processing per cycle.  Otherwise, the GHz number is basically arbitrary.  Yes the Phenom can complete processing cycles faster, but how many cycles does it take to get the same result as a single Intel cycle?  That is a very important factor if you're going to look at clock speed, and as far as I can tell benchmarks are a much better indicator of it than a plain GHz number.  There's probably some reasonable equation out there to compare them, but I'd bet it's not cores x GHz.

It's like saying you'd use a motorcycle to transport a family of 4 on vacation because it has a 150MPH top speed compared to an 85MPH station wagon.  The bike can make a single trip faster, but it would ultimately be slower because it would take many trips compared the the wagon's single trip.  The same is true for processors.

All that being said, I admittedly don't know enough to get into the nitty gritty of why GHz would be more important in gaming, so if someone can enlighten me I would appreciate it.  I'd still think you have to factor in more than purely clock speed. 

I've looked at the benchmarks, and am hard pressed to find a place where the Phenom substantially leads the i7 in anything, including games, while the 920 flat dominates the 965 in mostly everything aside from the odd benchmark here or there. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-965,2389-8.html That would be enough for me personally, but even if they performed identically, I'd go with the 920 for LGA 1366 alone.  Though, the expense of the 1366 board is something to consider.  With the 920, you can run multiple video cards at full pciex16.  I think that you'd be in a good position to just drop in a new Intel 1366 in a couple of years rather than have to buy a whole new board for the AMD, making up for the additional expense. All in all, it is more future-proof.

[Schlup]

Well you're right Desto, I hadn't seen those benchmarks before, the 965 performs about neck and neck with the i7 920 with the 920 winning some benchmarks.  Although I'm not sure I agree with your "future-proof" statement since the last 3 AMD sockets are interchangeable and are backwards compatible.  So you really don't have to upgrade your mobo to get a new chip.

[Destro]

I think we're going to arm wrestle this one out.  Meet me in Indy?

[Schlup]

Good call, I think we're gonna have to arm wrestle this one out.  I think St. Louis is more of a half way point.

[Sir-diealot]

Cool. The one bonus is It will give me an extra 300.00 if I pay the bill and get myself a gift certificate from newegg with what I have left for the month.

That's OK.  You can rethink your build now because here's an i7 920 for $200 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0302727
They had the 860 for $200 and I was thinking about getting it, gut they raised it to $230.  Still $50 cheaper than newegg and the 920 is $90 cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202&cm_re=i7_920-_-19-115-202-_-Product

[Sir-diealot]

I odered the new computer today. Only thing is I have to use an old case until next month as they are out off the coolmaster case Schlup recamended until May 4th. Here is what I got.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130223
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118059
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231289
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125316

 AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ965FBGMBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103727
CPU Replacement Only Return Policy  $183.99  
 .  1 * MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813130223
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy  $167.99  
 .  
Standard Return Policy  $49.99  
 .  1 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822136073
Standard Return Policy  $55.99  
 .  1 ZALMAN CNPS10X Performa 120mm Long life CPU Cooler - Retail
Item #: N82E16835118059
Standard Return Policy  $44.99  
 .  1 G.SKILL Trident + Turbulence 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17066) Desktop Memory Model F3-17066CL9D-4GBTDS - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231289
Memory Standard Return Policy  $169.99  
 .  1 GIGABYTE GV-R587UD-1GD Radeon HD 5870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814125316
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy  $429.99  

[Monkey_Grill]

Looks good!

[tehfunk101]

should have gotten an 890GX mobo like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131631&cm_re=890gx-_-13-131-631-_-Product
then you would get usb 3.0 and sata 6gb/s!

[Schlup]

Yeah, that board is a bit overkill, especially considering that it has (4) PCIe 2.0 slots, when chances are you'll only use one of them.  Of course, now you always have the option to buy a high performance PCIe SSD drive to stick in there for super performing hard drive.

Not only that, but you blew your budget and I don't see a power supply on there!  Good picks overall though.

Edit: Also, you'll only be able to run the RAM at 1600, not the 2133 that it claims because the CPU doesn't support that speed.  Just an FYI.
Also, you'll probably want to get a second 120mm fan for your CPU cooler seeing as how warm your ambient temps will be in the room the computer is in.

[Got_Amm0]

looks good what power supply do you have???

[Sir-diealot]

Did the best I could. It was a combo deal.

should have gotten an 890GX mobo like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131631&cm_re=890gx-_-13-131-631-_-Product
then you would get usb 3.0 and sata 6gb/s!

[Sir-diealot]

I will get that other case The cool master you showed me next month. I got a 750 watt PS from a friend. Did not realize that on the mem though:(

Yeah, that board is a bit overkill, especially considering that it has (4) PCIe 2.0 slots, when chances are you'll only use one of them.  Of course, now you always have the option to buy a high performance PCIe SSD drive to stick in there for super performing hard drive.

Not only that, but you blew your budget and I don't see a power supply on there!  Good picks overall though.

Edit: Also, you'll only be able to run the RAM at 1600, not the 2133 that it claims because the CPU doesn't support that speed.  Just an FYI.
Also, you'll probably want to get a second 120mm fan for your CPU cooler seeing as how warm your ambient temps will be in the room the computer is in.

[Sir-diealot]

I got s 750 watt from a friend for the time being.

looks good what power supply do you have???