The Great Big Competitive Team (CT) Thread

[tonski]

This thread is for those of you that are interested in competitive play.  What this entails (in meinen augen) is the following:

0) Discussion
         These are all up for discussion and more if you come up with more items.  If you agree please say so; if you'd like to discuss please say that too.  The outcomes will be updated in this POST.  If you're interested in being a part of the team please let us know here.  

1) Practicing.  
         You don't practice, you don't play.  (This may be cause for debate but I don't care if you're better than XXX who is on the team but you're not dedicated; this is not to be confused with unavailable every once in a while.)

2) Reliability.  
         There are strategies for different game types and there are roles in those strategies.  If CT can't rely on you to at least *try* to perform those duties then you're causing turbulence.

3) Courtesy.  
         Something I, personally, need to work on.  I'm normally (as in real life) very abrasive in game chat.  Accusing the other team of hacking (even if they are) or complaining about them should not become a part of CT's game play.

4) Scrims.
         If we have the members of CT online, we should try to scrim.  We should set up a TS3 channel for CT.

5) Strategies.  NOT FOR DISCUSSION HIER, ANOTHER FORUM WILL BECOME AVAILABLE WHEN WE GET THAT FAR.
         I have some ideas on strategies for game types to try out; I'm interested in hearing yours too.  If they don't work well, they don't work well - we'll try something else.  When we get far enough along to start using these a little studying and goofing around in game without enemies to accommodate scenarios will become a part of practicing.

6) Turbulence.
         I mention this in #2.  If you (or I) become a large problem or distraction we will take a team vote for your status (see below).

7) Status.
         Active (immediate team, ready for scrim, will play matches).
         Reserve (Same as active but is a backup player for matches and is an enemy during practices ).  

         This will accommodate up to a 12 player team (6 active, 6 reserve) though I suspect 8 (4/4) is more likely and an odd combination (6/2) or (4/2) is most likely.

8) Challenging.  
         This is where reserves becomes active and actives become reserves.  Needs further discussion.

         My thoughts: Practice like scenario (not during practice) where 2 rounds are played (do or die) where the challenging player and challenged player are swapped between rounds.  Limit to challenge or be challenged is 2 weeks.  Losing a challenge does not remove your status as a Captain or Co-Captain.

9) Ranks.
         Pretty straightforward.  
         Captains and Co-Captains does administrative stuff.  Finding leagues, finding scrims.  
         Players are responsible for signing up in leagues and joining the correct "team" on the site.  Can also help Cs and CCs do administrative stuff but won't have administrative control on foreign websites to edit/create BPN information.



Current Actives (first come, first serve until 8):

Code:

        Tonski             [BPN] beardoAYB
         64m3               [BPN] 64m3
         MightyMopar        [BPN] Mightymopar
         FallenOne          [BPN] FallenOne

Current Reserves:

Code:

        Schlup             [BPN] Schlup
         SuperTim           [BPN] SuperTim
         Cygnus             [BPN] Cygnus
         Dark Insomniac     [BPN] Dark Nadder
         HashBrowny         [BPN] Hashbrowny
         Drunken Texan      [BPN] DrunkTexan
         CKim               [BPNr] CKim
         Pepper             [BPN] Pepper

[Schlup]

I would like to be available as a reserve.  Also anything you guys need (like the TS3 channel) let me know and I will do it if it can be done.

[Schlup]

Two more things, first, you know this is in a public forum, anybody and their brother can read it, DO NOT discuss strats in here.  If you need me to move it to the private "members only" forum I can do so, just ask.

Secondly, I have a scrim team name and logo suggestion...

The Great Big Competitive Team (CT) Thread

[tonski]

lol I like the logo.  I think we should all append some sort of team name acronym to our name so we know who is who in terms of CT (no bearing on actual who's who in clan).  IE Captain on TB is not necessarily an admin and Hash can still tell them they're being inappropriate and expect to not get a flippant response.

I think it'd be good to get visibility to other folks (not in the clan) that we're going to have a CT.

Response Notes:

   Not picking on Hash, I just happen to know he's an admin.

[SuperTim]

I, also, would like to be a reserve if possible

[cygnus]

I am not interested in the slightest for competitive play at all but I have already stated that previously.  My reason for this is that my main goal when gaming is to have fun.  Having said that I wanted to add some input if any of you will take it with a grain of salt.

Although I admire the fact that some of you are more serious players than the rest of us, I think that competitive play takes away from the game for the sole reason that players take it WAY too seriously.  The ONLY reason I joined this group last year was because I shied away from playing on-line due to the constant mic spamming, taunting, mouthy kids, swearing, cheating accusations when people lose, etc etc, and this group offered an alternative that I really admired, I have the opportunity to meet some great people who also shared their passion for video games.

In a previous thread I suggested someone start a "hardcore" Team for the more serious players because they were frustrated with getting "owned" in team play.  Great! My concern is that this team (herin) is now segregating themselves from the rest of the clan by setting a different set of rules and regulations and I think this is wrong.  I think EVERY member, regardless if they are pros or not, should have a chance at competative play if they choose to join up one night while on line every now and again.  This promtes Team growth, allows the less experienced players to learn from the others and in the end everyone has some fun...or wait - is the fun exempt now because we are competative?  We are a Team / Clan and clans stick together and do not segregate by race, religous view, skill etc.  Technically, I am practising every time we play together, so does this not count towards attending practise?  Perhaps we might want to consider a more relaxed approach, rather than militant;  We may even get more interest from all the members, even myself!  Having said all that, I think it's great that Tonski and 64M stepped up to the plate for this...I just think maybe we are getting a lil beside ourselves with the seriousness....games are supposed to be fun, even if you aren't winning.

I am curious to know why the recruits would not be included?  There are a lot of great players out there and I personally see no reason to exclude them unless you guys came up with a good reason but it was not mentioned.  I feel that making a recruit feel welcome, from the get-go, may make them want to stay here.  This group is not supposed to be bias and yet I feel that it is when all "registered" members are not permitted to join the "special" Teams such as this.

Anyway - just my views - and perhaps I have no business at all posting them considering I am not going to be participating.

Cheers

[tonski]

I am not interested in the slightest for competitive play at all but I have already stated that previously.  My reason for this is that my main goal when gaming is to have fun.  Having said that I wanted to add some input if any of you will take it with a grain of salt.

Although I admire the fact that some of you are more serious players than the rest of us, I think that competitive play takes away from the game for the sole reason that players take it WAY too seriously.  The ONLY reason I joined this group last year was because I shied away from playing on-line due to the constant mic spamming, taunting, mouthy kids, swearing, cheating accusations when people lose, etc etc, and this group offered an alternative that I really admired, I have the opportunity to meet some great people who also shared their passion for video games.

1) In a previous thread I suggested someone start a "hardcore" Team for the more serious players because they were frustrated with getting "owned" in team play.  Great! My concern is that this team (herin) is now segregating themselves from the rest of the clan by setting a different set of rules and regulations and I think this is wrong.  I think EVERY member, regardless if they are pros or not, should have a chance at competative play if they choose to join up one night while on line every now and again.  This promtes Team growth, allows the less experienced players to learn from the others and in the end everyone has some fun...or wait - is the fun exempt now because we are competative?  We are a Team / Clan and clans stick together and do not segregate by race, religous view, skill etc.  Technically, I am practising every time we play together, so does this not count towards attending practise?  Perhaps we might want to consider a more relaxed approach, rather than militant;  We may even get more interest from all the members, even myself!  Having said all that, I think it's great that Tonski and 64M stepped up to the plate for this...I just think maybe we are getting a lil beside ourselves with the seriousness....games are supposed to be fun, even if you aren't winning.

2) I am curious to know why the recruits would not be included?  There are a lot of great players out there and I personally see no reason to exclude them unless you guys came up with a good reason but it was not mentioned.  I feel that making a recruit feel welcome, from the get-go, may make them want to stay here.  This group is not supposed to be bias and yet I feel that it is when all "registered" members are not permitted to join the "special" Teams such as this.

Anyway - just my views - and perhaps I have no business at all posting them considering I am not going to be participating.

Cheers

Hi Cygnus, 

I'm not trying to separate the competitive players from the more fun oriented folks.  Both have the same set of rules.  The CT, IMO, should be more restricted.  Now, I will respond by numbering your post and responding to issues individually.

1) Every member does have a chance to become part of the competitive reserves but we can't keep 20 active status players and still be effective.  In this way everyone does have the chance.  Practices for competitive play are more involved then just playing.  There are formations that are effective, hold-out positions that are effective, and break-down management strategies that need to be employed that a person does not get through regular play.  Learning these things is not fun, not in the least.  Employing them in real-game situations is fun but the level of non-fun type effort is high.  In this way it is not practical to have everyone on an active team.  Maybe it's just a matter of opening up the Reserves to an unlimited size.  The problem with not segregating (I know this is a bad word in English now) by skill is that we end up with just another clan inside of BPN with no structure or organization that can interface with competitive play and we end up with a team that is not really competitive, just another sub-group.  In practice it becomes a self defeating exercise to be competitive with folks that aren't dedicated to being competitive.  We're not breaking out of BPN, we're just a sub-group focused on competition and we're not doing this with a "better than thou" attitude, we're trying to do organized competition. 

2) I put this in there because recruits are not yet officially voted into the clan and if we rely on them for a competition and they do something dumb (hack?) then we're not putting ourselves between a rock and a hard place.

Please remember this is all up for discussion.  If you think we can make competitive play work with just accepting anyone on the Active team please outline how - I may not understand what you have in mind and am curious as to how it could work.  I'm not expecting as big of a commitment from the Reserves as I am from the Active.

[Schlup]

I completely see your point Cygnus, and agree with parts of it.  First off, the CT will have the same rules as everybody else.  Just want to give those that want to play competitively or at least try it out an avenue to do so.  The main problem with having CT is dedication, that being said if you've ever been part of a CT then you know everybody in the team depends on EVERYBODY in that team, if somebody doesn't show up the night of a scrim because they aren't dedicated enough then the whole team suffers because they either have to forfeit the match or play short handed which pretty much guarantees a loss.  I would also go to say the MOST important part of the CT is dedication, you have to want to get on at designated times over 2-3 days EVERY week and you have to be there and be on time.  That is why Tonski has setup both "Active" and "Reserved", if you can be dedicated and committed to the team then you should apply to be an "Active" if you don't think or want to be that dedicated but think it would be fun every once in a while to scrim a team (I think Cygnus fits in this category) then you should apply for "Reserved".  I don't see how they would be segregating themselves from anyone, I think everything mentioned so far is strictly a guideline and nothing is set in stone.  It has to be a little bit serious because you are part of a team and some of those people are not going to want to get it handed to them in matches, so practice will be necessary.  However, those that want to do this will have fun doing so, some people enjoy playing competitively and let's face it, if somebody isn't having fun they will most likely drop themself from the CT roster.

Secondly, I agree with Cygnus that BPN recruits should be eligible, I can see not allowing Junior members for obvious reasons but recruits should be allowed to play IMO, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to play.  I'm open to hearing any scenarios where that would be a bad idea though.

[tonski]

I completely see your point Cygnus, and agree with parts of it.  First off, the CT will have the same rules as everybody else.  Just want to give those that want to play competitively or at least try it out an avenue to do so.  The main problem with having CT is dedication, that being said if you've ever been part of a CT then you know everybody in the team depends on EVERYBODY in that team, if somebody doesn't show up the night of a scrim because they aren't dedicated enough then the whole team suffers because they either have to forfeit the match or play short handed which pretty much guarantees a loss.  I would also go to say the MOST important part of the CT is dedication, you have to want to get on at designated times over 2-3 days EVERY week and you have to be there and be on time.  That is why Tonski has setup both "Active" and "Reserved", if you can be dedicated and committed to the team then you should apply to be an "Active" if you don't think or want to be that dedicated but think it would be fun every once in a while to scrim a team (I think Cygnus fits in this category) then you should apply for "Reserved".  I don't see how they would be segregating themselves from anyone, I think everything mentioned so far is strictly a guideline and nothing is set in stone.  It has to be a little bit serious because you are part of a team and some of those people are not going to want to get it handed to them in matches, so practice will be necessary.  However, those that want to do this will have fun doing so, some people enjoy playing competitively and let's face it, if somebody isn't having fun they will most likely drop themself from the CT roster.

Secondly, I agree with Cygnus that BPN recruits should be eligible, I can see not allowing Junior members for obvious reasons but recruits should be allowed to play IMO, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to play.  I'm open to hearing any scenarios where that would be a bad idea though.

Just the reason I mentioned above .

[Schlup]

I see your point about the recruits, BUT, the same could be true of a member, if they are caught hacking then they are out of everything including the CT.  You'll typically be able to tell if somebody is hacking during practices, or just playing.  What I don't want is to not allow recruits to play, I mean, look at all the cool recruits we've had recently, we don't want to turn them off of BPN just because we won't allow them to participate in the CT.  In fact, I'll make this promise to the CT right now...If I have to ban a recruit for some reason and they are on the team I will personally fully fill in for them until a replacement can be found, any time, any place.  I don't think it will be an issue though, I have only had to ban 2-3 in the last several years.  Deal?

[cygnus]

Schlup, Tonski, you both make excellent points and thanks for that.  Tonski - good point about the dedication part, and I never thought of that and it makes sense.  I would love to be part of the scrims, just to learn from some of you other experts!!  So would a reserve player be permitted to attend the scrims, in a less formal manner, meaning on an irregular basis or only when filling in for someone else?

Schlup, Tonski - you sold me on the "reserve" status - Put me in Coach!!    I guess what part of me is afraid of is having one of the more avanced players single out the people who make mistakes due to their lack of experience or even availability...I guess in truth, we all make mistakes so it should not matter.  For me, I live a busy life, I have my own business, 3 kids of my own, 2 step kids, weekends up at the trailer from Apr - Oct, weekly jam sessions  and everything else, as much as I would LOVE to play video games 24/7 it just isn't possible unfortunately, but it does not make me any less dedicated in my opinion.  I am just busy.  So, for those who can, I guess it makes sense they get priority.

Schlup - agreed with you on some of the new recruits.. some great folks have joined recently.  I'm sure they would be thrilled to have the opportunity to play while they wait to become a member.

Cheers Gents!

[Mightymopar]

Current Actives - Add me please

[Dark Insomniac]

sign me up as a reserve cause within the next two to three weeks I will get my self a network card to get better connection... I wish I knew the network card in my ps3 cause it is further away and picks up better signal.

[Schlup]

TS3 channels have been created!

[HashBrowny]

Add me to the Reserves for now, if i dont get this job in 2-3 weeks then i can be available for the Actives.
also if the matches would ever need a good distraction player to draw out the enemies, i would say Jeric, Seraph, and myself would be great for those parts,
considering how much we enjoy kniving people. i would be a great distraction.

[64m3]

we can start to sched some scrim nights once we have a solid 8.

[Schlup]

8 in each of the active and reserves or 8 total?

[tonski]

Ahh, Schlup is keeping my post up to date while I crashed yesterday.  Thanks.

Cygnus: I hear you (though I'm not that busy).  I work 50-60 hours a week and weekends, race bicycles (I train ~20hrs a week) and have a wife that likes attention.

[Schlup]

Ahh, Schlup is keeping my post up to date while I crashed yesterday.  Thanks.

Cygnus: I hear you (though I'm not that busy).  I work 50-60 hours a week and weekends, race bicycles (I train ~20hrs a week) and have a wife that likes attention.

Assuming that you spend a couple of hours a day with your wife, and you sleep 8 hours a night that leaves you 18 hours a week to game or over 2 and a half hours a night to game, you have plenty of time Tonski!

[Drunken Texan]

Throw me on there as either active or reserve (where I am needed most)

[tonski]

Assuming that you spend a couple of hours a day with your wife, and you sleep 8 hours a night that leaves you 18 hours a week to game or over 2 and a half hours a night to game, you have plenty of time Tonski!

Lol, I have other stuff I have to do too.  House work, honey-dos, bicycle maintenance (probably 4 or 5 hours spent on this a week).  I sleep 7 to 13 hours a night.  Last night was a 13 hour night.  I eat "old fashioned" dinners too .  

Typical week day:
Wake up ~7a.
Sh, Shower, Shave (kinda..trim beard) - 10 minutes
Make peanut butter and banana oatmeal and eat - 10 minutes
Work ~7:30a - ~5/6p
Get home 5:15p
Train until about ~7:15p
Eat ~7:15 - ~8p
Then I usually spend time with the wife until 9 or 10, if 9 then that's when you see me get online..

On weekends my rides are 2 to 5 hours long and I have housework I have to help with.   If I have race it's more like an 6 hour endeavor because I have to wake up ~5a eat and drive an hour or two

[FALLEN]

ok i work 730 am to 6 pm get home around 7 and thats mon thru sat so any other day im free when ever but i will drop anything to do this really iv been trying for along time to get this stuff going

[tonski]

ok i work 730 am to 6 pm get home around 7 and thats mon thru sat so any other day im free when ever but i will drop anything to do this really iv been trying for along time to get this stuff going

I'll add you to the actives.  It sounds like weekend practices are going to be most convenient.  Saturday/Sunday afternoons?  The alternative to us not getting enough for us to practice against ourselves is just forming 6 man team and playing pubs after we do some initial movement practices..

We need to decide on a game type to focus on, be it objective type or TDM type.  My vote is focusing on Sabotage or HQ.  Sabotage and SD are both slow movers.  HQ and CTF are multi-function processes.  TDM is going to be a slow mover in MW2 too.

Schlup: can we get a member's only CT forum so we don't clutter up the "member's only" with strat stuff?

[Schlup]

Done.

[tonski]

Thank you.

[chinokim]

lll be a reserve, if you let a recruit be one. im on pretty regularly.

[64m3]

i think 8 actives to start (looks like we have half that), got to look at the ladder.

hq pro will get us to use the maps more effectively.

weekends are good for me too.

[tonski]

Practice votes http://www.bulletproofnerds.com/smf/index.php/topic,1354.0.html

[Pepper]

Hey I can be set as a Reserve for sure!  I could also be Active, but i will need to know the times, I usually have my work schedule set for a month or two in advance, so please let me know!

Any info you guys need to pass on to me, ask me for my email!

BUT NOT YOU MOPAR, I DON'T WANT DIRTY EMAILS!

[Schlup]

Well I think the reserves section is pretty full after Pepper.  I think at this point we need to get some details worked out and hopefully get some of the reserve guys over to active status.

[Pepper]

Two more things, first, you know this is in a public forum, anybody and their brother can read it, DO NOT discuss strats in here.  If you need me to move it to the private "members only" forum I can do so, just ask.

Secondly, I have a scrim team name and logo suggestion...

The Great Big Competitive Team (CT) Thread

lol btw, looks like a sign for an ice cream parlor

[Schlup]

OR, the Miami Vice logo...which is what it is!

[FALLEN]

lol go pep

[tonski]

Weekend nights look like they work for most people.  Game and I are still discussing game types, will post a poll of what is available in the CT forum.

[Schlup]

Well the different ladders in TWL for MW2 are as follows...the number to the right is how many teams are on the ladder.  NA=North America, Hardcore or Regular mode.

CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 3v3 Search and Destroy Ladder   34   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 4v4 Capture the Flag Ladder   7   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 4v4 HeadQuarters Ladder   11   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 4v4 Team Deathmatch Ladder   10   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 5v5 Search and Destroy Ladder   43   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 6v6 Capture the Flag Ladder   5   info
CoD MW2: NA - HardCore - 6v6 Team Deathmatch Ladder   7   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 3v3 Search and Destroy Ladder   92   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 4v4 Capture the Flag Ladder   46   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 4v4 Demolition Ladder   50   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 4v4 Domination Ladder   35   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 4v4 Team Deathmatch Ladder   45   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 5v5 Search and Destroy Ladder   155   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 6v6 Capture the Flag Ladder   44   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 6v6 Demolition Ladder   32   info
CoD MW2: NA - Stock - 6v6 Team Deathmatch Ladder   21   info

[Pepper]

I'm guessing the numbers and "info" are links from the website?  If not, what do they mean?

[Schlup]

Read my post again, it said what the numbers mean.  Info was a link....

[64m3]

the numbers represent the amount of registered teams for that game type

[tonski]

I'm going to vote for CTF, Fallen and Schlup are both catastrophic runners (when against them).  Both fast and have weird senses about which way to go..starting a poll in CT forum.

[Schlup]

Really a running kit can just about be used in any game mode except TDM and S&D, I used it quite a bit in demolition last night and it helped immensely!  I kinda think that demolition would be a good one, we can always try a couple and see how we like them and drop out of which ever we don't like, or stay in multiple, it would be up to the team.

[tonski]

I'm changing my vote to 4 demo or 5 demo.  We just need to focus on one to build teamwork initially is my thought.  When we pubbed a few nights ago we end up with wanderers who don't really focus on a task..which is fine - just not in competition.

I think you'd be surprised at how well running kits work in SD, very rarely do I find a team that doesn't suffer serious breakdown from a flanking runner who is good at getting to the other spawn quickly (and then retraces normal avenues to bomb sites).

[Schlup]

Oh, I'd like to try that running in S&D.  It's a pretty ballsy move though!

[tonski]

You'll know in 2 rounds if you're not cut out to do it  Wide open maps are impossible to do this on (the one with the big field from CoD2 is a definite no-no).  People try to be sneaky so I find right down the middle is usually safest.

[Schlup]

Yeah, I tried it out, I did alright the first round (got 3 kills) but then it started going down hill from there.  They are expecting it so it only really works one round I think.

[Jeric]

After giving this alot of thought i would like to be put on the active list. I hope to bring things to the team that i gave to are R.I.P cod4 team