WHEN CHILDRENS PROGRAMING WAS STILL CHILDRENS PROGRAMING

[Sir-diealot]

Unlike the crap kids are subjected to today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ7UrYECxHU
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[Schlup]

I don't know any kids that would even watch that nowadays...I know I wouldn't if I was a kid and it came on TV.

[Sir-diealot]

Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them. I do know a few families that raise the kids on the older programing and the kids seem to do much better than other kids in their age group when it comes to socializing and interaction with others in general. Feed them trash and get trash out feed them good stuff get good stuff out.

[Schlup]

You are starting to debate an age old issue.  So you're saying if someone was raised watching only UFC they would be a great UFC fighter.  Or if they watched Rambo all the time they would become a killing machine.  What you are saying is that they are what they watch.  That is simply not a true statement.  I believe that children will grow up to the the adults that their PARENTS raised them to be, if you have good parents who do good parenting then you will have good kids...of course the reverse is also true AND you can't say one or the other 100% of the time.

Keep in mind that by your statement you would also be including the statement that children who grow up gaming in FPS they will be killers.  Alot of people blame the Columbine killings on this type of stuff but it is simply a scapegoat for BAD PARENTING.

[Sir-diealot]

You are starting to debate an age old issue.  So you're saying if someone was raised watching only UFC they would be a great UFC fighter.  Or if they watched Rambo all the time they would become a killing machine.  What you are saying is that they are what they watch.  That is simply not a true statement.  I believe that children will grow up to the the adults that their PARENTS raised them to be, if you have good parents who do good parenting then you will have good kids...of course the reverse is also true AND you can't say one or the other 100% of the time.

Keep in mind that by your statement you would also be including the statement that children who grow up gaming in FPS they will be killers.  Alot of people blame the Columbine killings on this type of stuff but it is simply a scapegoat for BAD PARENTING.

I am saying it is bad parenting to expose the children to many of the so called kids shows in the first place.

[Silvir]

Sesame Street, Bugs Bunny, those are what my daughter watches, that and some Nickelodeon morning programs, those little kids shows with the spanish and the chinese, and the CG and what not... yeah those things...

[Sir-diealot]

Sesame Street, Bugs Bunny, those are what my daughter watches, that and some Nickelodeon morning programs, those little kids shows with the Spanish and the Chinese, and the CG and what not... yeah those things...

I refer more to the so called kids programs like Sponge Bob, The Simpson's, King of the hill and others. I got to watch the remake of Cat in the hat and that movie had several adult references and well as pushed a liberal view on several subjects that should not be be put in kids programs. If we did not make junk then kids would still be into the good stuff but we bombard them with it and that is a reason for the decline of the U.S. and the world as a whole. 

[SolidSnake]

Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them. I do know a few families that raise the kids on the older programing and the kids seem to do much better than other kids in their age group when it comes to socializing and interaction with others in general. Feed them trash and get trash out feed them good stuff get good stuff out.

This one is so controversial, it's going to be fun...First things first, a child in todays society (and as far back as I can ever remember) will be ridiculed for not "keeping up with times". Therefor, anyone watching antiquated programming is simply not going to have the conversation material necessary to socialize with the rest of the public youth. Secondly, who are we as a people to decide what is best for the upcoming generations? Did your parents approve of the music you listened to when i t came out? I know my grandparents had a fit when my dad came home listening to AC/DC. And mine as well blew a gasket when I brought home Metallica. This didn't make it anymore wrong for us then anything else on the market at the time. I think Schlup made a good point, you can't judge how a person will turn out, or act for that matter, by what they watch/listen to/play. The majority of the civilized world know that those shows/games/music are far exaggerated, and that those actions shouldn't be done, and aren't accepted in society. Now, as far as "bad parenting" goes for allowing the children to watch such shows as the Simpson's, or king of the hill, especially family guy... There's a difference between letting your kids watch it, and making sure they know the truth. My son has a bigger problem picking up bad habits from my dad then he does TV, but he also knows what is not acceptable...at 3 years old. When my dad cusses, my son tells him he said a bad word, when my dad lights a cigarette, my son tells him to go outside... Again, as Schlup said, not what they watch, what you teach them.

[Silvir]

I refer more to the so called kids programs like Sponge Bob, The Simpson's, King of the hill and others. I got to watch the remake of Cat in the hat and that movie had several adult references and well as pushed a liberal view on several subjects that should not be be put in kids programs. If we did not make junk then kids would still be into the good stuff but we bombard them with it and that is a reason for the decline of the U.S. and the world as a whole.

The Simpson's and King of the Hill, I don't consider these kids shows, they are too violent and their language is appalling...

[Sir-diealot]

Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them. I do know a few families that raise the kids on the older programing and the kids seem to do much better than other kids in their age group when it comes to socializing and interaction with others in general. Feed them trash and get trash out feed them good stuff get good stuff out.

This one is so controversial, it's going to be fun...First things first, a child in todays society (and as far back as I can ever remember) will be ridiculed for not "keeping up with times". Therefor, anyone watching antiquated programming is simply not going to have the conversation material necessary to socialize with the rest of the public youth. Secondly, who are we as a people to decide what is best for the upcoming generations? Did your parents approve of the music you listened to when i t came out? I know my grandparents had a fit when my dad came home listening to AC/DC. And mine as well blew a gasket when I brought home Metallica. This didn't make it anymore wrong for us then anything else on the market at the time. I think Schlup made a good point, you can't judge how a person will turn out, or act for that matter, by what they watch/listen to/play. The majority of the civilized world know that those shows/games/music are far exaggerated, and that those actions shouldn't be done, and aren't accepted in society. Now, as far as "bad parenting" goes for allowing the children to watch such shows as the Simpson's, or king of the hill, especially family guy... There's a difference between letting your kids watch it, and making sure they know the truth. My son has a bigger problem picking up bad habits from my dad then he does TV, but he also knows what is not acceptable...at 3 years old. When my dad cusses, my son tells him he said a bad word, when my dad lights a cigarette, my son tells him to go outside... Again, as Schlup said, not what they watch, what you teach them.

First off they way they communicate comes from education not TV. Second my parents did approve of the music I listened to when they were alive because I loved country music and classical as well as Opera as I got a bit older, and never even owned a rock album until about 1990 when I was 20 and living on my own. Now my sisters on the other hand they did not like their music. There was music that was not allowed to be brought into my home because it was just nasty vulgar trash. Now you ask what right do we have? Parents have every right in the world to censer what comes into their home but many do not out of pure laziness or simply not being patient enough to deal with it and that is the fault of the parent. Further more a child does much better in life when they are brought up on programs with morals then the smut that plays on TV today.

[Sir-diealot]

I refer more to the so called kids programs like Sponge Bob, The Simpson's, King of the hill and others. I got to watch the remake of Cat in the hat and that movie had several adult references and well as pushed a liberal view on several subjects that should not be be put in kids programs. If we did not make junk then kids would still be into the good stuff but we bombard them with it and that is a reason for the decline of the U.S. and the world as a whole.

The Simpson's and King of the Hill, I don't consider these kids shows, they are too violent and their language is appalling...

But way to many parents still allow it and I say we need to take a moral stand and not allow junk to be made in the first place. I have several older programs that I let kids watch here on DVD such as the original Little Rascals, Mork and Mindy, Laurel and Hardy, Old Yeller and so on. They love them and REQUEST them. When I do let them watch TV it is stuff I approve of and most of that is on Boomerang and again they enjoy and ask for it. I have started to buy many of the shows I watched as a kid and I play those for them. Things like Rikki Tikki Tavi, Charlotte's web(I Ask the parants how they feel about this and old Yeller because they both include death in the end) and The Apple Dumpling Gang. They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction.

[SolidSnake]

This is the first contradiction. "Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them."  "They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction." This is the second contradiction. "I do know a few families that raise the kids on the older programing and the kids seem to do much better than other kids in their age group when it comes to socializing and interaction with others in general." "First off the way they communicate comes from education not TV." Now I have a question here..."Now my sisters on the other hand they did not like their music. There was music that was not allowed to be brought into my home because it was just nasty vulgar trash." Why is it whenever it's not the genre that a specific person listens to, it's trash...? Now to reiterate my previous point about "bad parenting", you have the right to censor what YOUR child sees, but you have NO RIGHT to censor the viewing of others not under your care. And please share your source that viewing certain programs changes the outcome of an individuals life. I grew up on thrillers, murder mysteries, drama, action, horrors. I haven't killed, mamed, shot, stabbed, spit on, or gang raped anyone. Nor have I stolen a car, jumped off a building, cussed out a teacher, or assaulted a store clerk. TV has NOTHING to do with how you are raised, it's a pathetic cop-out for parents who don't want to admit they ignored their children. And I am tired of the b.s. accusations that because a kid is permitted to watch a movie, play a game, or listen to a band, the parents are lazy. The simple fact is, some people are uptight conservatives, and other people are loose belted liberals, and occasionly there's a group inbetween.

[Sir-diealot]

This is the first contradiction. "Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them."  "They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction." This is the second contradiction. "I do know a few families that raise the kids on the older programing and the kids seem to do much better than other kids in their age group when it comes to socializing and interaction with others in general." "First off the way they communicate comes from education not TV." Now I have a question here..."Now my sisters on the other hand they did not like their music. There was music that was not allowed to be brought into my home because it was just nasty vulgar trash." Why is it whenever it's not the genre that a specific person listens to, it's trash...? Now to reiterate my previous point about "bad parenting", you have the right to censor what YOUR child sees, but you have NO RIGHT to censor the viewing of others not under your care. And please share your source that viewing certain programs changes the outcome of an individuals life. I grew up on thrillers, murder mysteries, drama, action, horrors. I haven't killed, mamed, shot, stabbed, spit on, or gang raped anyone. Nor have I stolen a car, jumped off a building, cussed out a teacher, or assaulted a store clerk. TV has NOTHING to do with how you are raised, it's a pathetic cop-out for parents who don't want to admit they ignored their children. And I am tired of the b.s. accusations that because a kid is permitted to watch a movie, play a game, or listen to a band, the parents are lazy. The simple fact is, some people are uptight conservatives, and other people are loose belted liberals, and occasionly there's a group inbetween.

It is not the genre but the language in and of it's self that is vulgar.
How can you say otherwise when there is a chorus of swear words, talk about beating your girlfriend and how cool it is and so forth.
You quote me and say this is a contradiction
Therein lied the problem. They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them."  "They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction." How is this a contradiction? I have programming that they have been directed or introduced to that they otherwise would not have been. They have other things they can do or watch when I am not in the room or still in bed but when I come out they are watching the good stuff and not the trash. I have other movies they could just as easily put in but they CHOSE to watch the better more wholesome programs.
If a program teaches that a child should respect their parents, go to church, have respect for others, love their country, and in may of those show back then there was even an emphasis on doing homework. Remember the Beaver and Wally were not allowed to go outside til there homework was done.As far as the way you act I will leave that alone as it will only cause problems.

[Schlup]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

[SolidSnake]

Are you so dense that you don't see where you are contradicting your own words..."They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them."  This means they will watch any "trash" you let them.  "They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction." This means they ask for the "wholesome" programming you provide. So which is it, they watch "trash", or ask for "wholesome"? You can't have it both ways. And as for the music, you must be an instrumental fan, because there are plenty of country songs that refer to infidelity, spousal abuse, and bar fights. And no, I never watched "Leave it to Beaver". But I do my homework, and am taking the initiative to go back to school, and get a degree. Not a single tv show I have ever watched taught me that, I DID IT BECAUSE I WANTED TO. And as for the way I act, I don't care that you don't agree with my lifestyle, because you aren't paying my bills, buying my clothes, putting gas in my car, or feeding my family.

[Schlup]

Let's all remember this is a discussion and no personal attacks are warrented let alone needed.  It's just a good discussion, that's all.  Don't let it get under skin...everybody has different opinions on just about everything in life.

[Silvir]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

The shows wouldn't need the "adult humor" if the show wasn't horrible...

[Sir-diealot]

Are you so dense that you don't see where you are contradicting your own words..."They are bombarded with so much trash they don't get to know what is good for them."  This means they will watch any "trash" you let them.  "They request to watch this sort of thing over the trash that is played on most TV stations and that just goes to show given a choice they will make the right ones given direction." This means they ask for the "wholesome" programming you provide. So which is it, they watch "trash", or ask for "wholesome"? You can't have it both ways. And as for the music, you must be an instrumental fan, because there are plenty of country songs that refer to infidelity, spousal abuse, and bar fights. And no, I never watched "Leave it to Beaver". But I do my homework, and am taking the initiative to go back to school, and get a degree. Not a single tv show I have ever watched taught me that, I DID IT BECAUSE I WANTED TO. And as for the way I act, I don't care that you don't agree with my lifestyle, because you aren't paying my bills, buying my clothes, putting gas in my car, or feeding my family.

You fail to understand the give direction part. If you let them go throughout life without directing them they will make the wrong decisions. It is teaching them through direction that they LEARN to make the proper choices. And I did not say I either agreed or disagreed with the way you act, I simply stated I would leave it alone as it would start problems. The main difference in the way Country music presents the things you mention and the way that the music listened to today by youth it the country that I have always listened to (I don't like modern country as it sounds to much like the Pop Rock that my sisters listened to in the 80's) Is that country sings it in a manner of regret, remorse, and portrays it in a negative way Whereas the music the kids are listening to today glorifies it.

[Sir-diealot]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

The shows wouldn't need the "adult humor" if the show wasn't horrible...

Would you care to explain that? If it is kids programing then why is adult humor needed at all?

[Schlup]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

The shows wouldn't need the "adult humor" if the show wasn't horrible...

Would you care to explain that? If it is kids programing then why is adult humor needed at all?

So that adults can watch the programming with their children.

[Silvir]

Would you care to explain that? If it is kids programing then why is adult humor needed at all?

That's my point, it's a kids show, they really is no need for the adult humor if the kids are watching it, it's wonder today's youth is so "messed up" per say...

[Schlup]

Please read my above explainations on why they create programming and movies for children with adult humor in them.

[SolidSnake]

lol, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like me and Schlup will keep re-making the same points, and keep being rebutted by Die and Silvir. As this just seems unproductive, I will leave it at this post...

We as a people have fought long and hard to enjoy the frivolous pleasures we partake in. This includes but is not limited to watching controversial shows/movies, listening to demeaning music, and saying vulgar words. The life individuals lead are their own, and they have the right to that life. But in no way do they have the right to intervene in anothers life choices.

It has always been said the the child who represses is the adult who agresses. The saying basically illustrates a child forced into actions for the entirity of their childhood, is the most likely to be the questionably acting adult. Just simply because they felt "deprived" for so many years, they feel they have to make up for lost time.

I'm not saying give your kids a gun and a pack of smokes, and tell them to have fun. But certainly some length on the leash is necessary to LET THE KIDS MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE. Mommy and Daddy won't be there forever to guide them, the bird has to learn to fly on it's own to leave the nest. They need to learn decision making skills as early as possible, in order to maintain a constant balance.

Now, for the record, none of the cartoon shows we have been talking about (Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, American Dad) are truly "kid shows". But, the American Censorship has set a standard, and all of the following shows, if you ever take the time to notice, are rated TV14, which means "parents strongly cautioned". Here is a link for full details on ratings,  http://www.tvguidelines.org/ratings.htm.

My point is, the parent does have the ability, and authority, to decide what their child watches. But, as the old saying goes, "if you squeeze water it slips through your fingers". Don't hold them too tight or be overbearing, or they won't even talk to you when they leave the nest.

[Monkey_Grill]

THEY EAT YOUR BRAINS!!!

[Schlup]

THEY EAT YOUR BRAINS!!!

Way to contribute Grill.

[SolidSnake]

lawlz.... sorry, couldn't help my self.

[Silvir]

I understand what everyone is saying, but when it comes to so called "kids" shows, yeah they say TV-14, but what about below that, there really are not any shows for those between 13 and 5 anymore, you might find some really old ones, but nothing new is for that age, and thus creates a barrier between adult age'd shows and kids shows.  So thus the TV-14 shows are becoming the new "kids" shows.

I'm not fighting and/or contradicting what you are all saying, these are all valid points, it's just that, when is the rest of the world gonna realize that a little kid needs more to a show than just violence and adult humor... they still need that learning experience they get from the little kids shows, like sesame street.

[Sir-diealot]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

The shows wouldn't need the "adult humor" if the show wasn't horrible...

Would you care to explain that? If it is kids programing then why is adult humor needed at all?

So that adults can watch the programming with their children.

There is no need for that if it is a well made show both the child and the adult can enjoy it. I enjoy watching the programs I have mentioned with the kids, it is fun to watch their faces light us with the crazy exploits of the Little Rascles or with some of the older kids Laural and Hardy.

[Sir-diealot]

lol, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like me and Schlup will keep re-making the same points, and keep being rebutted by Die and Silvir. As this just seems unproductive, I will leave it at this post...

We as a people have fought long and hard to enjoy the frivolous pleasures we partake in. This includes but is not limited to watching controversial shows/movies, listening to demeaning music, and saying vulgar words. The life individuals lead are their own, and they have the right to that life. But in no way do they have the right to intervene in anothers life choices.

It has always been said the the child who represses is the adult who agresses. The saying basically illustrates a child forced into actions for the entirity of their childhood, is the most likely to be the questionably acting adult. Just simply because they felt "deprived" for so many years, they feel they have to make up for lost time.

I'm not saying give your kids a gun and a pack of smokes, and tell them to have fun. But certainly some length on the leash is necessary to LET THE KIDS MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE. Mommy and Daddy won't be there forever to guide them, the bird has to learn to fly on it's own to leave the nest. They need to learn decision making skills as early as possible, in order to maintain a constant balance.

Now, for the record, none of the cartoon shows we have been talking about (Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, American Dad) are truly "kid shows". But, the American Censorship has set a standard, and all of the following shows, if you ever take the time to notice, are rated TV14, which means "parents strongly cautioned". Here is a link for full details on ratings,  http://www.tvguidelines.org/ratings.htm.

My point is, the parent does have the ability, and authority, to decide what their child watches. But, as the old saying goes, "if you squeeze water it slips through your fingers". Don't hold them too tight or be overbearing, or they won't even talk to you when they leave the nest.

I 100% disagree with this statement "he life individuals lead are their own, and they have the right to that life. But in no way do they have the right to intervene in anothers life choices." The parent not only has the right but the DUTY to regulate what the child does, what the child hears, what the child sees what the child eats and who the child hangs out with. I think as the child gets older they also have the right to search the child's room for drugs or anything else they may deem unworthy to be in the home. Unfortunately many parents feel they need to be the child's FRIEND and a parent doing that is maybe the worst act a parent can make. They are not their friends they are their parents and the parameters are completely different and should never be intertwined. You say "It has always been said the the child who represses is the adult who agresses." Well that sounds like pure psychological hog wash. Psychology has done more to destroy the family unit then any other thing in this world and should NEVER be trusted.

[Schlup]

I think that we all must realize the some of the "trash" programming and movies that are made today DO have adult references in them so that adults and children can find them entertaining together.  The children do not understand the adult humor and finally the adults can actually watch an amusing show they their children love thus allowing them to be together and spend time together doing something they both enjoy.

The shows wouldn't need the "adult humor" if the show wasn't horrible...

Would you care to explain that? If it is kids programing then why is adult humor needed at all?

So that adults can watch the programming with their children.

There is no need for that if it is a well made show both the child and the adult can enjoy it. I enjoy watching the programs I have mentioned with the kids, it is fun to watch their faces light us with the crazy exploits of the Little Rascles or with some of the older kids Laural and Hardy.

What's with the personal attack on me Sir?  I thought I already posted about that.  Ok, did I get you?  Cause I'm just playing but I thought it would be funny for you to think that I thought you were personally attacking me.  Let me know if I tricked you or not.

[Sir-diealot]

Was wondering what the heck you were talking about.

[SolidSnake]

I understand what everyone is saying, but when it comes to so called "kids" shows, yeah they say TV-14, but what about below that, there really are not any shows for those between 13 and 5 anymore, you might find some really old ones, but nothing new is for that age, and thus creates a barrier between adult age'd shows and kids shows.  So thus the TV-14 shows are becoming the new "kids" shows.

I'm not fighting and/or contradicting what you are all saying, these are all valid points, it's just that, when is the rest of the world gonna realize that a little kid needs more to a show than just violence and adult humor... they still need that learning experience they get from the little kids shows, like sesame street.

I do have to disagree, as my son (3 years old) watches Diego, Dora, Big Big World, and a few others I forget the names of. And of course you still have the old stuff around in the mornings like Sesme Street, Thomas the Train, Barney, TeleTubbies, Mr. Rogers. They do have educational programs suited and directed specifically for children, you just have to know what channel and time they are on. The adult themed shows are plays as such, in the evenings after most adults get home from work. Where as they childrens programs afor mentioned are in primarily in the mornings and into the early afternoons. Let's not forget SATURDAY MORNING CARTOONS!!!

[Schlup]

True, my little niece loves that Dora girl and the monkey Diego!

[Sir-diealot]

I understand what everyone is saying, but when it comes to so called "kids" shows, yeah they say TV-14, but what about below that, there really are not any shows for those between 13 and 5 anymore, you might find some really old ones, but nothing new is for that age, and thus creates a barrier between adult age'd shows and kids shows.  So thus the TV-14 shows are becoming the new "kids" shows.

I'm not fighting and/or contradicting what you are all saying, these are all valid points, it's just that, when is the rest of the world gonna realize that a little kid needs more to a show than just violence and adult humor... they still need that learning experience they get from the little kids shows, like sesame street.

I do have to disagree, as my son (3 years old) watches Diego, Dora, Big Big World, and a few others I forget the names of. And of course you still have the old stuff around in the mornings like Sesme Street, Thomas the Train, Barney, TeleTubbies, Mr. Rogers. They do have educational programs suited and directed specifically for children, you just have to know what channel and time they are on. The adult themed shows are plays as such, in the evenings after most adults get home from work. Where as they childrens programs afor mentioned are in primarily in the mornings and into the early afternoons. Let's not forget SATURDAY MORNING CARTOONS!!!

Barney teaches thievery.